1 (edited by stevemcbill 17-04-2020 11:02:31)

Topic: Bluebell Rust Query

Dear Chris,

I am hoping that either yourself or perhaps one of the more mycologically minded readers on the Forum can help me here as I have a query about Bluebell Rust (Uromyces muscari).  I have always recorded the rust on Bluebell (Hyacinthoides) leaves as U.muscari but have recently had my records entered (with photos) on iNaturalist changed to Uromyces hyacinthi.

On questioning the observation validator he indicated the following:  "I am using Klenke&Scholler 2015 to identify rusts. They list Uromyces hyacinthi as the rust on Hyacinthoides. They mention U.muscari f. sp. hyacinthi as a synonym. I don't know what people use for rust ID in the UK, but I could imagine that whatever is used still has U.muscari f. sp. hyacinthi as the rust on bluebells which is why nobody reports U.hyacinthi.".

I have checked Bladmineeers and they show U.muscari but do not show it using Hyacinthoides as a host:  https://bladmineerders.nl/parasites/fun … s-muscari/

Whereas Bladmineers does show U.hyacinthi as using Hyacinthoides as a host:  https://bladmineerders.nl/parasites/fun … hyacinthi/

I have checked "Roesten van Nederland (Dutcvh Rust Fungi" Termorshuizen 2011 and also "British Rust Fungi" Wilson & Henderson 1966 and neither mention U.hyacinthi at all; so I am assuming that this must be a relatively recent taxonomic change.

Are we behind the rest of Europe on a taxonomic change here ??  Should all the records of U.muscari on the NBN Atlas be changed to U.hyacinthi ??

I would be grateful for any clarification you (or anyone else) can provide.

Many thanks
Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

2

Re: Bluebell Rust Query

Hi Steve, I'm not really qualified to say but we list both options as Species in the UKSI and we updated the database just before Richard Shotbolt's sad passing so our treatment should be very up to date. I know that doesn't really help but I will ask around and see if I can get a trusted opinion on it :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

3

Re: Bluebell Rust Query

Hi Steve, I asked Malcolm Storey who knows his rusts and he says:

"Heard something about this recently. The bluebell rust is now hyacinthi. muscari is restricted to Grape Hyacinths. This is presumably a DNA-supported result. It overturns the late 20th Century morphology view in favour of the early 20th Cent view!"

https://bladmineerders.nl/parasites/fun … JyFfcdbJRI

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

4

Re: Bluebell Rust Query

Now, thinking about it, this could be a mess because muscari has undoubtedly been used for rusts on Bluebell. I think the only way around this is to make it an agg. "muscari/hyacynthi" and then create a new muscari sensu.stricto ... what do you think? :/

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

5 (edited by stevemcbill 04-05-2020 23:20:24)

Re: Bluebell Rust Query

Sounds like a viable way forward Chris - thanks for pursuing it with Malcolm.

If the records include information about the host and this shows Bluebell as the host then surely they can be safely converted to U.hyacinthi; where Grape Hyacinth is shown as the host the records can be converted to U.muscari; and where no host is specified then the records would need amending to the aggregate of U.muscari/hyacinthi.

Looks like I will be having to change the way I record this.

Cheers and thanks.
Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

6

Re: Bluebell Rust Query

Hi Steve - just a quick update, after chatting at length with Brian Douglas. The BMS feeling right now is that morphologically muscari and hyacinthi are indistinguishable. They seem to exist in 2 strains on different hosts that cannot infect the other host but that doesn't really make them distinct species ... it's complicated and we need more DNA work to find out what is happening. So rather than split everything off the BMS would like me to synonymise hyacinthi under muscari to give us one concept. Then we will wait for a consensus to develop on the way to go ... it might be that we keep is as it is now OR we split them off. But we'll take that decision then :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)