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Topic: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

There appears to be a problem with the designation for the Common Pipistrelle Pipistrellus pipistrellus sensu stricto on the NBN Atlas. The list for Habitats Directive Annex 4 shows two entries for Pipistrellus pipistrellus but both links go to the species aggregate. No link at all to the species, which I assume means it won't bet picked up.

I note also that Recorder 6 still does not show this species as belonging to a number of designations that it should do (just compare list for Soprano which shares many of the same designations).

The latter may still be hangover from the issue reported here though the JNCC spreadsheet appears to list it correctly.

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Mark Pollitt
SWSEIC (formerly DGERC)

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Re: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

Thank your for highlighting this.

I will get it corrected as soon as possible. I am not sure whether both entries should be on the list. I checked the Habitats Directive Annex 4 species list and it only includes the Common Pipistrelle (Pipistrellus pipistrellus sensu stricto). I need to check this, but at the moment the species won't be picked up at all.

Many thanks,

Best wishes, Sophie

Sophia Ratcliffe
Technical & Data Partner Support Officer, NBN

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Re: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

Thanks Sophie

Just to note that the issue noted here also affects the designation lists on the NBN Atlas website as well as R6. Although there are currently no records for A. statices subsp statices on the NBN atlas, if there were they likely would not be picked up from any designation list which has A. statices listed as the sub-species links directly to the sub-genus in the species dictionary and skips the species level of the hierarchy. It's really an issue for Chris regarding the species dictionary.

Mark Pollitt
SWSEIC (formerly DGERC)

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Re: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

Hi Mark,
Thank you for letting me know about this as well.

Sophie

Sophia Ratcliffe
Technical & Data Partner Support Officer, NBN

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Re: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

Hi Mark,
I have changed the name of one of the Pipistrellus pipistrellus entries to Pipistrellus pipistrellus 45kHz and the name matching has correctly identified it as the species. The other entry still goes to the species aggregate.

Many thanks for raising this,

Sophie

Sophia Ratcliffe
Technical & Data Partner Support Officer, NBN

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Re: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

Just bumping this thread with a reference to this that I've just posted in the species dictionary forum: https://forums.nbn.org.uk/viewtopic.php … 887#p28887

Charlie Barnes
Information Officer
Greater Lincolnshire Nature Partnership

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Re: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

Hi Charlie,
We will add the qualifier to the name when we update the Atlas species dictionary this month: https://github.com/nbnuk/nbnatlas-issues/issues/426.

We will also investigate including the qualifier in the name matching routine. I don't know whether it is built into the existing ALA code, I imagine not.

I will write a message when we do the update.

Many thanks, Sophie

Sophia Ratcliffe
Technical & Data Partner Support Officer, NBN

8 (edited by lesbentley 06-01-2019 15:05:39)

Re: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

I am new to NBN and Recorder 6, so I hope I am not misunderstanding this thread, but I would like to make the following points.

Entries like "Pipistrellus 45kHz" and "Pipistrellus 55kHz" seem pointless to me, as they are not species, and neither the FmaxE nor the Fmin nor the Fc of any Pipistrellus species found in Britain is 45kHz. The designations "sensu stricto" and "sensu lato" seem redundant and confusing. Roughly translated they seem to mean "I'm sure I got it right" and "I probably got it wrong" respectively. Why not use the actual species names?

There are at least 4 species of Pipistrellus being detected and recorded in Britain at present:

Pipistrellus pipistrellus (Common Pipistrelle)
Pipistrellus pygmaeus (Soprano Pipistrelle)
Pipistrellus nathusii (Nathusius' Pipistrelle)
Pipistrellus kuhlii (Kuhl's Pipistrelle)

Whilst kuhlii does not seem very common, and may be hitching a ride here on ships from the overseas, it is being detected here, and those detections need to be documented.

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Re: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

"sensu strictu" and "sensu lato" have very definite and defined meanings with regards to species names.

Assume "Batty batty" is a well recorded species of bat that everybody knows and is easily recorded because it has a distinctive call on the bat detector.  We have lots of records of "Batty batty".  Someone then does some work and discovers that there are two separate species hiding behind the name "Batty batty", but they need to checked in hand to separate the two species.  We end up with two species, "Batty batty" and "Batty squeaky".

What becomes of all the old "Batty batty" records?  None of them were checked in hand, so we cannot say is these were actually records of "B.batty" or "B.squeaky".  All these records are now identified as "Batty batty sensu lato", with sensu latu meaning "in the broad sense" because we do not know which they were.  We don't want to discard these records, so using the "sensu lato" addition allows us to carry on using these for maps etc.

Now we know there are two species, we check each bat in hand.  Those that are the real "Batty batty" are recorded as "B.batty sensu strictu" - "in the strict sense".  This means we can separate out those records where we are sure of the ID from those of the aggregated species.

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Re: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

Thanks for the clear and detailed explanation Matt Smith. A supplementary question here. As I understand Pipistrellus pygmaeus was officially split off from Pipistrellus pipistrellus in 1999. Are we still supposed to be adding stricto to current PiPip observations, or does the stricto/lato thing only apply to pre 2000 records?

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Re: Problems with Pipistrelle bat designations on NBN Atlas

I've had a quick look at the "Pipistrellus" names available on the iRecord system, which uses a names list provided by the UKSI, as does Recorder.    There are quite number of (slightly confusing) names for both species available on the drop down list, presumeably to allow people to record the species as, for example Pipistelle or 45kHz Pipistrelle.  The scientific names associate with both these Common names are the same, so the records will end up in the same "bucket".

Following my example, P.pipistellus sensu lato should only be applied to records before the two species were split in 1999.  Subsequent records (assuming they are correctly identified) should be recorded as P.pipistrellus sensu strictu.  In iRecord at least the names already have the appropriate "sensu strictu / sensu lato" attachments, so you would select the appropriate one for your records.