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Re: Hydrilla verticillata/Elodea Nuttallii and Carex Otrubae/Vulpina

We have had some problems with a record for Elodea Nuttallii coming out in reports as Estwaites Waterweed (Hydrilla verticillata) and likewise for Carex otrubae as Carex vulpina. The records for elodea nuttallii were entered on the BSBI List Of British & Vascular Plants & Stoneworts as Elodea nuttalli [Auct], Non [Planch] H.St John [Spp] Hydrilla verticillata[L.F] Royle and likewise Carex otrubae was entered as Carex otrubae [Auct] Non Podp [Spp] [Carex vulpina L] - [Caotr]. Is it just a case of knowing this and being aware when entering data or is it part of a bigger problem with old and new checklists being merged due to changes in taxonomy.

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Re: Hydrilla verticillata/Elodea Nuttallii and Carex Otrubae/Vulpina

These look to me like what Mark Hill would call "dangerous names" - in otherwords names that have more than one meaning.
     Carex otrubae auct., non Podp. is now apparently Carex vulpina L.
Whereas:
     Carex otrubae Podp. is still a recognisd name

Similarly:
     Elodea nuttallii auct., non (Planch.) H. St. John is now Hydrilla verticillata (L. f.) Royle
Whereas:
     Elodea nuttallii (Planch.) H. St. John is still recognised.

I am not a taxonomist so dont know if this is indeed the case but that is what the database is saying. If this is incorrect then we can update the database.

Best wishes
Steve

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Re: Hydrilla verticillata/Elodea Nuttallii and Carex Otrubae/Vulpina

Thanks very much steve, useful to know

4 (edited by charliebarnes 05-03-2018 13:37:32)

Re: Hydrilla verticillata/Elodea Nuttallii and Carex Otrubae/Vulpina

Chris,

I think there is (still?) a problem with Hydrilla and Elodea. I've tried to get my head around it - but to summarize, we have a common name of "Nuttall's waterweed" being applied to Hydrilla verticillata in the Recorder taxon lists*.

On e.g. http://nbn-sd-dev.nhm.ac.uk/taxon.php?l … 0000002115 Esthwaite and Nuttall's are both given as common names of Elodea nuttallii (Planchon) H.St.John - this is wrong and may be the cause of the above problem.

(*The issue is with the Environment Agnecy Check List - there doesn't appear to be an option for Elodea nuttallii (Planchon) H.St.John and I wonder if something has gone wrong when trying to update this - we still get data from the EA as Hydrilla verticillata)


(Sorry!)

Charlie Barnes
Information Officer
Greater Lincolnshire Nature Partnership

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Re: Hydrilla verticillata/Elodea Nuttallii and Carex Otrubae/Vulpina

Hmm, that is a bit odd. Let me take this up with Carole at the EA and see if they maybe picked the wrong nuttallii for their checklist.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

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Re: Hydrilla verticillata/Elodea Nuttallii and Carex Otrubae/Vulpina

ChrisR wrote:

Hmm, that is a bit odd.

Phew, I thought it was just me !

Charlie Barnes
Information Officer
Greater Lincolnshire Nature Partnership

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Re: Hydrilla verticillata/Elodea Nuttallii and Carex Otrubae/Vulpina

Yeah, my guess is that somehow we have the wrong nuttallii on that row in the checklist and we just need to change the TVK to be the correct one because there is no hint that they meant to use an odd "auct" junior synonym.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

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Re: Hydrilla verticillata/Elodea Nuttallii and Carex Otrubae/Vulpina

Hi Charlie - that should be sorted now. It was a problem on the EA list and actually they had a script to correct it at their end but I have changed their list here now. So TLIK NBNSYS0100045641 changes TVK to NHMSYS0000458329.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

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Re: Hydrilla verticillata/Elodea Nuttallii and Carex Otrubae/Vulpina

Thanks Chris!

Charlie Barnes
Information Officer
Greater Lincolnshire Nature Partnership