1

Topic: Fish Query

Chris,

Can I ask a question please: - I notice that the UKSI has an entry for Guppy (Poecilia reticulata Peters, 1859) and it makes me wonder whether some records I have from 1964 are considered to be valid records or not.  Back then there was a stretch of canal in St. Helens (Merseyside) known locally as the "hotties".  This stretch of canal ran by the Pilkington Glass factory and water was pumped from the canal to cool areas in the glass making process and then back out into the canal.

A local aquarium shop went out of business and the proprietor emptied all his tanks into the canal.  Many of the fish bred and very successfully too, these included Guppies, Platies, Sword-tails, American Flag Fish and Angel Fish - all of which I used to catch and sell to a Pet Shop in Widnes.  I am sure other species bred there too but these were the species I caught myself.

So, my question is:  would you consider adding these other species to sit along with the Guppy so that I could record them in Recorder-6 and other databases using the NBN webservices species database ??

American Flag Fish (Jordanella floridae, Goode & T. H. Bean, 1879)
Swordtail (Xiphophorus hellerii, Heckel, 1848)
Platy (Xiphophorus maculatus, (Günther, 1866))
Angel Fish (Pterophyllum altum, Pellegrin, 1903)

Since that time, Pilkingtons stopped using the canal as coolant water and the fish petered out.

I would be grateful for any comments you might make.

Cheers and thanks.

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

2 (edited by stevemcbill 22-04-2015 11:01:56)

Re: Fish Query

There are also reports of the following species from the Hotties around the 1960's and 70's:

Tilapia zilla.
Tilapia galilae.
Tilapia peacock.
Tilapia mariae.
Convict Cichlid (Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum).
Mozambique Mouthbrooder (Oreochromis mossambicus).
Liberty Molly (Poecilia salvatoris).
Oscar (Astronotus ocellatus).

As well as Bitterling, Roach, Rudd, Tench, Perch, Bream, Carp and Gudgeon.

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

3

Re: Fish Query

Hi Steve

Good question. We do seem to have Tilapia zillii (Gervais, 1848) and both Guppy and this Tilapia seem to be on the GBNNSIP non-native checklist. You could argue that if they are listed as 'non-native' (albeit extinct ones) then so should the other species that you knew to exist then.

However, I would neatly sidestep this and suggest you have a word with Steph Rorke at the BRC because she is maintaining the GBNNSIP checklist and she might be able to explain why the other fish didn't make the list :)  Actually, I will email your list over to her and ask and if she'd like more data on the provenance then I can refer her to you?

Cheers
Chris R.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

4 (edited by stevemcbill 10-03-2015 17:56:35)

Re: Fish Query

Yes Chris - fine.  Thank you.

See these links:

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/s … 013.84776/

http://liverpoolaquarist0.tripod.com/hotties.htm

http://www.sthelens-connect.net/forums/ … mp;t=55814

http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk … php?t=6043

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi … 0of%20fish

http://forteanzoology.blogspot.co.uk/20 … guppy.html

Cheers.

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

5 (edited by stevemcbill 22-04-2015 11:02:38)

Re: Fish Query

The Amazonian freshwater Jellyfish (Craspedacusta sowerbii) is also found in this canal (and is still being found as it seems to be able to lay dormant until warmer conditions reappear).

See here:  http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv … ey-7532359

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

6

Re: Fish Query

Any reply from Steph Chris ??

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

7

Re: Fish Query

Hi Steve - apologies - I asked Steph to chat with you directly and she acknowledged my email so I left it in her hands. I know she works some days and not others and I am guessing that she has been investigating the names you listed and she will get back to you as soon as she has checked them out :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

8

Re: Fish Query

Fine Chris - Thanks.

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

9

Re: Fish Query

Hi Chris,

Still nothing from Steph regarding the potential addition of these fish from St.Helens.  Have you heard any news ??

Cheers,
Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

10

Re: Fish Query

No - but then I haven't heard back from Steph on other things too so I will go via another route in case she is on holiday ;)  I will report back here ...

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

11

Re: Fish Query

Thanks Chris - appreciated !

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

12

Re: Fish Query

Hi Steve - I heard back from Helen Roy that she & Steph will be discussing the issue later this week :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

13

Re: Fish Query

Thanks Chris.

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

14

Re: Fish Query

Hi Chris,

Hear anything further from Steph on this matter ??

Cheers.

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

15

Re: Fish Query

I chatted to her the other day and she is preparing an update to the GBNNSIP list but has been having soem technical problems which have been slowing down her work. I will just remind her about your fish so that she can consider them in this round. I know she was going to raise the issue but I am not sure how far it got. :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

16

Re: Fish Query

Just to let you know Steve, Steph has checked out the fish and I think the majority will be going onto the GBNNSIP list :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

17

Re: Fish Query

Thanks Chris (and Steph) - appreciated !!!

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

18

Re: Fish Query

Just checking in Chris - did the species mentioned make it onto the GBNNSIP list do you know and if so do you have a broad timeframe for when they will be added to the UKSI and to the Recorder family ???

Cheers,
Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

19

Re: Fish Query

No word on that yet - it depends largely on Steph's workload :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

20

Re: Fish Query

Chris,

As far as I can tell none of these fish have, so far, been added to the UKSI and beyond.  Can you possibly tell me where we are up to with these species please.

Many thanks.
Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

21

Re: Fish Query

Hi Steve, yes sorry but I am still waiting on specific instructions on which tropical fish they are happy to add to the system. I know Steph has plans to update me but haven't seen an updated checklist yet.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

22 (edited by stevemcbill 13-02-2018 12:22:58)

Re: Fish Query

Hi Chris,

Sorry to be a hassle on this one but having just checked none of the fish requested seem to have made it into the UKSI and beyond.  Did you ever get a response from Steph regarding the decision ??  Could you possibly chase her on these potential additions please ??

Many thanks.
Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

23

Re: Fish Query

No problem Steve - I will check for you :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

24

Re: Fish Query

Thanks Chris - appreciated.

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/