1 Topic by charliebarnes

  • charliebarnes
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Topic: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana is (I'm told!) a rare hybrid of the Outer Hebrides and Country Limerick. However, according to the NBN Atlas it's quite widespread:

https://species.nbnatlas.org/species/NH … 0#overview

I believe this issue is caused by the common name for this hybrid being "Marsh Orchid", and vague unspecific records of marsh orchids being automatically matched to this taxon (in Recorder 6).

Chris - can we remove this common name? It's from the Recorder 3 dictionary but it has to be an error? Or is something else going on taxonomically?

NBN - it might be worth flagging this up with data providers?

Charlie Barnes
Information Officer
Greater Lincolnshire Nature Partnership

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2 Reply by Gordon Barker

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Re: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

It looks like there are 18 different Dactylorhiza hybrids in the R6 dictionary that have the common name marsh orchid (and 6 that don't).

Looking at our R6 database, I think that 5 or 6 of the records on NBN Atlas will come from there, including the Cornish one. I think this has come about through the import wizard matching marsh orchid to D. x aschersoniana as the alphabetically first taxon name of those hybrids.

I'll get ours changed for the next update.

Gordon Barker
Biological Survey Data Manager
National Trust

3 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

Looks to me like that is a spectacularly bad name! I think it would be best to reassign "Marsh Orchid" to Dactyorhiza ... would you agree?

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

4 Reply by charliebarnes

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Re: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

That is how I interpret "marsh orchid", but I note that Dactylorhiza also includes the spotted-orchids?

Charlie Barnes
Information Officer
Greater Lincolnshire Nature Partnership

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5 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

Well, I've moved it ... I think it's the nearest fit for the name and it's just dangerous where it was. ;)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

6 Reply by Gordon Barker

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Re: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

Chris,
Is this likely to be a common problem in other genera? I have just noticed a similar issue in Cerastium where a record that was probably entered as mouse-ear has ended up as C. alpinum x fontanum = C. symei which I think would be very unusual in Derbyshire.

Gordon Barker
Biological Survey Data Manager
National Trust

7 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

I think it should be OK Gordon - it just causes issues when a very broad, generic common name somehow makes it's way onto a very specific taxon. That example seems correctly set up here - with "mouse ear" being on the genus, rather than on a species/hybrid. :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

8 Reply by charliebarnes

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Re: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

Not sure if it's more confusing to add this here or start a new thread.. I'll try here.

There seems to be the same issue with Plantago sempervirens - it's on the Recorder 3 list as 'Plantain': http://nbn-sd-dev.nhm.ac.uk/taxon.php?l … 0000169568

Charlie Barnes
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Greater Lincolnshire Nature Partnership

charliebarnes's Website

9 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

Urgh ... what do you think is the safest move for that? Maybe move it to Plantago?

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

10 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

Plantago seems to be the best fit so I have moved it :)

If you spot others just start a new thread otherwise it's difficult ot find them again in the list ;)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

11 Reply by charliebarnes

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Re: Dactylorhiza x aschersoniana

Thanks Chris - yes, that sounds good to me. I'll try not to spot any more......!

Charlie Barnes
Information Officer
Greater Lincolnshire Nature Partnership

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