1 Topic by TeresaF

  • TeresaF
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Topic: Hieracium vulgatum

I've just sent some data to the Gateway using the recommended TVKs from Recorder 6. 3 TVKs are not yet on the Gateway. 2 of these I assume will find their way there in time (NHMSYS0021120320 - added by Chris Raper 6/12/14 in the COLEOPTERA list and NHMSYS0021121684 - added by Chris Raper 26/01/15 to Rothemstead Research checklist of British aphids).

The third is NHMSYS0021118701 but I am wondering if this should be the recommended TVK as it has been added to the List of additional names and there is already a preferred vascular plants list?

Here are the outputs of our recorder species name report for the two relevant TLIKs used in our Recorder 6 database:
Preferred_List    FALSE    TRUE
Preferred_Avail    FALSE    FALSE
Preferred    No    No
Used_Key    NBNSYS0000065135    NHMSYS0000444940
pref_Key    NBNSYS0000065135    NHMSYS0000444940
Rec_Key    NHMSYS0021118702    NHMSYS0021118702
Used_Name    Hieracium vulgatum    Hieracium vulgatum
UsedAttrib       
Used_Dict    Recorder 3.3 (1998)     VASCULAR PLANTS AND STONEWORTS BSBI List of British & Iris
Pref_Name    Hieracium vulgatum    Hieracium vulgatum
REC_Name    Hieracium vulgatum    Hieracium vulgatum
Common_Name    Pale-headed Hawkweed    Pale-headed Hawkweed
RecAttrib    auct. Angl.    auct. Angl.
Rec_Dict    List of additional names    List of additional names
Family    Asteraceae    Asteraceae
Order    Asterales    Asterales
used_TVK    NBNSYS0000004551    NHMSYS0000459702
rec_TVK    NHMSYS0021118701    NHMSYS0021118701

-----------------
Teresa Frost | Wetland Bird Survey National Organiser | BTO
Other hat  | National Forum for Biological Recording Council
(Old hats  | NBN Board, ALERC Board, CBDC, KMBRC)

2 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Hieracium vulgatum

Hi Teresa

I think you're correct on the 'missing' TVKs ... Graham has an update but I think he must have had to finish some work before importing it.

The third one raises an example of where the concept of a Recommended Checklist is really quite misleading (it's a concept that pre-dates the Nameserver), whereas a Recommended TVK in the Nameserver is the best current expression of what we recommend in the master taxonomy/synonymy. This normally agrees with the recommended lists but checklists are slow to update and tend to lag behind requests from users who need new names adding. For example, I wouldn't be able to add in a plant name to the BSBI checklist without a specific instruction from them to do so and there haven't been any updates for quite a while, as we all know. So in the mean time I keep our data as up to date as possible and hopefully when the BSBI do issue an update we will be able to implement that and everything will agree.

So, for everything in the system the Recommended TVK in the Nameserver is the best scientific name for any taxonomic concept, regardless of whether the name is on a recommended checklist. Does that make sense? :)

Chris R.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

3 Reply by Gordon Barker

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Re: Hieracium vulgatum

Hi Chris

Not really. I am now deeply confused. Starting with a TVK is not a name so that sentence can't be right. i would have thought the Names in ITN based on the RTLIK from Nameserver would be best, but I have been trying to work this out for a while and could be wrong.

Gordon Barker
Biological Survey Data Manager
National Trust

4 Reply by TeresaF

  • TeresaF
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Re: Hieracium vulgatum

Thanks for this Chris. I was aware that the Recommended name and preferred and lists etc. can be different but it is good to know how you choose which TVK is recommended. It was the "auct. angl." bit that confused me with the binomial name itself being the same - not being a botanist or taxonomist - I saw it and thought it might mean it was a different taxon level perhaps, but I am guessing it means something else informative! In fact the whole thing looks rather complicated (ie difference between Hieracium vulgatum Fr. [MicSpp] vs Hieracium vulgatum auct. angl. [Spp]) and I am rather sorry I asked. ;) As long as people putting the former into our database and me translating to the latter on to Gateway make sense, that is good enough for me!

Yes it does seem that the Gateway is behind Recorder on incorporating the latest changes to the dictionary (oh those old backwards offline systems ;))

-----------------
Teresa Frost | Wetland Bird Survey National Organiser | BTO
Other hat  | National Forum for Biological Recording Council
(Old hats  | NBN Board, ALERC Board, CBDC, KMBRC)

5 Reply by stevemcbill

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Re: Hieracium vulgatum

auct. angl. = auctorum anglicum - as in "of British Authors".  At least that is what I understand it to mean.  Anybody else ??

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
www.rECOrd-LRC.co.uk
www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

stevemcbill's Website

6 Reply by charliebarnes

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Re: Hieracium vulgatum

This is from the BLS:

auct. brit. = auctorum britannicum; of British authors. [NB: Hawksworth (2003) uses auct. angl. = auctorum anglicum, although not all British authors are English; e.g., J.M. Crombie and W.L. Lindsay have Scottish origins!].

http://www.britishlichensociety.org.uk/ … chen-names

Charlie Barnes
Information Officer
Greater Lincolnshire Nature Partnership

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7 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Hieracium vulgatum

Hi Teresa

Charlie & Steve have done a good job of outlining what the "auct. angl." means - sorry I miss-read your email. My understanding is that "angl." would suggest English not British ("brit.") authors but it's just a minor distinction.

The broader issue is what does it mean in conceptual terms and how does it affect your interpretation of a name. This is a bit more difficult but whenever you see "auct." (or "auctt.", for the plural) it signifies that this name has been misused. Previous workers used the name to refer to something that we now think should have been called something different. It sounds a bit crazy but it happens quite a lot. This isn't the usual type of junior synonym, where something is accidentally described twice and then taxonomists sink one of the names as a junior synonym - "auct." always means that there was a mistake of interpretation and that the name is actually better used for a different species.

You normally see "auct." on checklists against a junior synonym but occasionally you might see it on a recommended name, such as your "Hieracium vulgatum auct. Angl." example where it signifies that this is an English interpretation of this name and workers are currently still working on understanding exactly which name applies to it. I remember a few of these attributed names were created by the publication of Fred Rumsey's Vascular Plant Red List. Although the JNCC hasn't issued the update yet, I have created the names and applied them in the way that Fred intended them to be used in readiness for the Red List.

I hope that helps a bit more. When the taxonomists have sorted out exactly what that taxon should be called I expect the "Hieracium vulgatum auct. Angl." to be sunk as a junior synonym and a nice new name to appear :)  It might be Hieracium vulgatum Fr. but at the moment there is doubt that this name is being used correctly ... but it's the name we use at the moment here.

Chris R.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)