1 Topic by Purgle Linham

  • Purgle Linham
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Topic: Scorzoneroides autumnalis

Hi
I'm working through a R6 import of MapMate derived data and the species dictionary does not include Scorzoneroides autumnalis (L.) Moench (Autumn hawkbit) - it only lists its synonym Leontodon autumnalis L. [Spp] (Taxon Version Key: NBNSYS0000004522). A quick web search found S. autumnalis and indicates that this is the preferred name for it based on Stace 3.

Does this mean that there are a number of new plant names that have not yet made their way to the dictionary? This may already have been discussed here so sorry if I've missed that.

Thanks
Purgle

Purgle Linham
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

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2 Reply by RobLarge

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Re: Scorzoneroides autumnalis

I am sure it has already been discussed Purgle, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth bringing up again.

Chris, any timescale on when we can expect the Stace 3 changes to be incorporated? Shouldn't be a difficult task since lists of changes have been in the public domain for at least two years now and maybe longer. We are starting to receive large datasets using the new names now and sorting them out is very time consuming.

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

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3 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Scorzoneroides autumnalis

Hi Rob

I have been told that it would be best to wait until the BSBI have done the work of revamping their checklist, which will include all of the Stace3 changes. Not sure about the timescales on this but I will ask Fred Rumsey when he is in the office next (tomorrow-ish).

Best wishes,
Chris R.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

4 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Scorzoneroides autumnalis

Hi Purgle

We are still waiting for the BSBI to update their list but in the meantime if there is anything in particular that needs adding or synonymising then do give me the details. Am I right in saying you would like "Scorzoneroides autumnalis (L.) Moench" adding to the database as the accepted name of "Leontodon autumnalis L." (Taxon Version Key: NBNSYS0000004522)?

Chris R.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

5 Reply by RobLarge

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Re: Scorzoneroides autumnalis

I think I can answer for Purgle on this one, that this specific change is probably no more or less important than any of the hundred or more others in Stace 3.

While I understand your need to wait for BSBI on this one, it is now nearly three years since Stace 3 was published and this is generally regarded as the definitive source of vascular plant nomenclature. If we were talking about an obscure or little recorded taxonomic group such a delay might not matter much (or at least might not bother many people), but vascular plants make up the majority of all the records on our system and a large proportion of all the new records we enter each year.

After three years I would imagine that there are now new recorders out there who only know the Stace 3 names and many of the names which have changed are extremely common taxa. It would be good to get the changes incorporated as soon as possible.

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

RobLarge's Website

6 Reply by Purgle Linham

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Re: Scorzoneroides autumnalis

Hi
Thanks for the offer Chris but as Rob says there are numerous species that are problematic right now so don't worry about making this addition on my account - I'd rather the time was spent hassling BSBI or just going ahead and incorporating the changes without them. I've mentioned the issue to our BSBI VC Recorder and asked her if she can urge them to sort this out soon in case that helps at all!

Cheers

Purgle Linham
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

Purgle Linham's Website

7 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Scorzoneroides autumnalis

Hi Purgle / Rob

Yes, I can only agree - in an ideal world the list would have been updated by now - along with a few of the other lists that are in need of an update. There is no lack of willpower - just a lack of manpower (to chase-up and do the changes) over the last 2 years, as Charles was heavily bogged down doing a massive upgrade to the database. This created a backlog that I am working through, as I get up to speed with the system and also plan for future upgrades that should hopefully make updating the database much faster.   

I'm very keen to get all of the checklists updated but in the meantime I am happy to add new species/names to the List of Additional Names, if they are holding anyone up. :)

Best wishes,
Chris R.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

8 Reply by Purgle Linham

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Re: Scorzoneroides autumnalis

Thanks Chris - we do think you're doing a great job nonetheless :)

One that would be useful then is Ludwigia hexapetala - Uruguayan Primrose-willow as I had to add that as Ludwigia L. [Gen].

Thanks

Purgle Linham
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

Purgle Linham's Website

9 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Scorzoneroides autumnalis

Hi Purgle

That one is apparently a real can of worms at the moment. We have
L. grandiflora (Michx.) Greuter & Burdet
L. uruguayensis (Camb.) Hara
L. peploides (Kunth) Raven

all of which I think have at one time or another been a name for Uruguayan Primrose-willow / Hampshire-purslane.

I have just emailed a person who has been researching the taxonomy of this invasive alien and I hope to have a definitive reply soon so that we can tidy the names up and provide the best valid name for it :)

Best wishes,
Chris R.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

10 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Scorzoneroides autumnalis

OK, I have made all the changes that I think are necessary. There are others that could be made, to account for Stace3, but I will wait on the BSBI treatment of Stace in their list rather than add extra potentially confusing synonyms.

The summary is that we only have one taxon in the UK - L. grandiflora subsp. hexapetala - we do not have the nominate subspecies. Ludwigia uruguayensis & L. peploides are both 'auct. Brit.' junior synonyms of L. grandiflora hexapetala so I have dropped them under L-g-h but I have chosen not to add 'auct.' to their attributes because these names are used in the Wildlife & Countryside Act and cannot be altered in this context. L. hexapetala is another 'auct.' because it is a valid name but not in the context of the UK flora. It was brought in with Stace 3 and will probably be added - as would L. grandiflora 'auct.' but I will let the BSBI rule on how they would like it to finally be arranged.

So, in summary the changes are:

added "Ludwigia grandiflora subsp. hexapetala (Hook. & Arn.) G.L. Nesom & Kartesz"
tvk NHMSYS0020979164

synonymised Ludwigia peploides (Kunth) Raven NHMSYS0020744905
synonymised Ludwigia uruguayensis (Camb.) Hara NHMSYS0020744911
synonymised Uruguayan Hampshire-purslane

potentially (for the future):
add synonym Ludwigia grandiflora auct.
add synonym Ludwigia hexapetala (Hook. & Arn.) Zardini, H. Gu & P.H. Raven +auct. Brit.  (Stace3)

I hope that has simplified the situation adequately and it gives everyone the names they need. If for any reason you need to see "L. hexapetala auct." as a synonym then let me know and I will add it :)

Best wishes,
Chris R.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)