1 Topic by Aisling Carrick

  • Aisling Carrick
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Topic: Out of date plant name(s)?

One of the North Wales County Recorders has alerted me to a discrapancy between Stace 3 (now used in BSBI databases) and the Species Inventory - I assume there may be more than one difference - and I was wondering if there is a timescale for updating the Vascular plant list in the Inventory?

The species in question is Trichophorum cespitosum - the name should now be applied to a species which is very rare in Britain which was previously known as T. germanicum (or possibly Trichophorum cespitosum subsp. germanicum, I'm not sure). T germanicum is now the name apparently applied to the common plant.

Many thanks

Aisling

Aisling May (Carrick)
Data Manager - Cofnod (North Wales Environmental Information Service)

2 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Hi Aisling

Grrr - I just wrote a long reply and somehow managed to lose it.

Anyway, the Stace3 updates were put on hold pending a completely new checklist from the BSBI which was to include Stace3 etc. However this hasn't happened yet and so I have nudged my contact gently for an update. In the meantime I'm (as usual) happy to do ad-hoc updates that get people able to record things :)

The Trichophorum situation seems fairly easy to resolve by taking the existing 3 taxon-concepts and translating them as:

1. T. caespitosum s.lat. to contain any names under Trichophorum cespitosum (L.) Hartm.
2. T. caespitosum s.str. to contain any names under Trichophorum cespitosum subsp. cespitosum (L.) Hartm.
3. T. germanicum s.str. to contain any names under Trichophorum cespitosum subsp. germanicum (Palla) Hegi

... I think ... unless I have misunderstood :)

Best wishes,
Chris R.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

3 Reply by Aisling Carrick

  • Aisling Carrick
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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Hi Chris

Thanks very much - this sounds sensible! How soon would these updates be likely to be applied? I hope you do get a favourable response about an update of the whole checklist as I'm sure there are lots of other issues - this one was just highlighted to me as an obvious one.

Best wishes

Aisling

Aisling May (Carrick)
Data Manager - Cofnod (North Wales Environmental Information Service)

4 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Hi Aisling

This little issue should be fairly easy to slot in - I just need to complete an update to the BOU bird list and I should be able to do it - in a day or two. The wider BSBI checklist update will probably take a few weeks, after I receive it and have checked that the data is in a good state to import :)

Best wishes,
Chris R.

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

5 Reply by Aisling Carrick

  • Aisling Carrick
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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Hi Chris

Just wondering has there been any progress with updating the BSBI list?

Many thanks

Aisling

Aisling May (Carrick)
Data Manager - Cofnod (North Wales Environmental Information Service)

6 Reply by RobLarge

  • RobLarge
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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Funnily enough I had one of our county recorders asking about this yesterday too.

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

RobLarge's Website

7 Reply by ChrisR

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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Hi

Apologies, I must have skipped over that one for some reason - it has been very hectic here for the last few months. I have done the changes now and they are as follows:

Trichophorum caespitosum (L.) Hartm. s.lat.
tvk NHMSYS0021007976
(contains any names under Trichophorum cespitosum (L.) Hartm.)

Trichophorum caespitosum (L.) Hartm. s.str.
tvk NHMSYS0021007982
(contains any names under Trichophorum cespitosum subsp. cespitosum (L.) Hartm.)

Trichophorum germanicum (Palla) Hegi s.str.
tvk NHMSYS0021007988
(contains any names under Trichophorum cespitosum subsp. germanicum (Palla) Hegi)

I hope that fixes the problem :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)

8 Reply by Aisling Carrick

  • Aisling Carrick
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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Thanks very much Chris for your reply and update to the Dictionary fixing the Trichophorum issue. However I was actually referring to whether the update to the entire BSBI list (to implement Stace 3 names) was likely to happen in the near future?

Many thanks for your help,

Aisling

Aisling May (Carrick)
Data Manager - Cofnod (North Wales Environmental Information Service)

9 Reply by RobLarge (edited by RobLarge 24-03-2014 10:34:28)

  • RobLarge
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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

So was I, it's getting embarrassing now.

Thanks for fixing the Trichophorum, unfortunately we don't really see that in Wiltshire. I am much more concerned about the hundreds of much more common species which have been renamed by Stace over three years ago. The majority of our plant recorders now use the Stace 3 names which makes data import increasingly tedious.

My own recording materials remain as before, because I know the WSBRC can't handle the new names yet, but whenever I pass data to another botanist, I usually get a raised eyebrow, "Oh you're still using Stace 2 I see..."

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

RobLarge's Website

10 Reply by RobLarge

  • RobLarge
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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Even without all the necessary changes it would be useful to have all of the new names in the database as a Stace 3 list.

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

RobLarge's Website

11 Reply by Gordon Barker

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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

From a quick look at it, I thought the Stace names were now in the VASCULAR PLANTS list as synonyms

Gordon Barker
Biological Survey Data Manager
National Trust

12 Reply by RobLarge

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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Oh yeah, so they are. Looks like that one slipped past me somewhere. My apologies.

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

RobLarge's Website

13 Reply by RobLarge

  • RobLarge
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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Oh yeah, so they seem to be. Looks like that one slipped past me somewhere. My apologies.

Still can't update my recording materials though, because the necessary queries rely on preferred names. Likewise all reported material will use the current preferred name which is the Stace 2 version. Any imported data will also be associated with names which are not in the preferred list (I presume this will correct itself when the list is finally updated).

Also the taxonomy is all wrong as it stands. A search in the taxon dictionary under vascular plants for Schedonorus takes you to Festuca L. Correctly from one angle, since the two names are historically synonymous. However only three species formerly in Festuca are now in Schedonorus, the rest remain in Festuca.

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

RobLarge's Website

14 Reply by stevemcbill (edited by stevemcbill 19-08-2014 07:43:12)

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Re: Out of date plant name(s)?

Chris,

Any more news on the updating of the Dictionary to include the 'new' Stace nomenclature ???

Have BSBI passed you their new checklist as yet ??

I am being asked by recorders who are attempting to enter data and all are using the 'new' Stace names.

Cheers.

Steve

Steve J. McWilliam
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www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/

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