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Forum → UK Species Inventory / Dictionary → White Admiral
Extracting records on our system for 'White Admiral' does not find older records that have been input using the synonym 'Ladoga camilla' on the Rec 3.3. checklist. I guess this is due to a problem with Nameserver?
Looking back in the Forum I see this problem was commented on by Keith Balmer and Graham French back in Jan 2010. I'm surprised none of the Dicionary upgrades has corrected it yet.
After Martin's post I ran queries to see if we have similar issues. 4 taxa seem to have different numbers of records between running a query against all Lepidoptera in the R3.3 or LEPIDOPTERA lists:
Lycaena phlaeus ssp eleus
Gonepteryx rhamni ssp gravesi
Polyommatus icarus ssp icarus
Maniola jurtina ssp cassiteridum
Not sure but I think this might be a case where records were entered using the english name and somehow attributed incorrectly to a subspecies (the Irish brimstones aren't in Ireland and the Scillonian meadow browns are on the mainland) but I'n not sure how to check this.
Running the xml report St03 Number of observations per species (Reports – Run – System Reports – Statistics) (file name: JNCC_St03_ObsvPerSpecies.xml) will enable you to see if you have any observations for these species entered using the English name and attributed incorrectly to a subspecies. When the Actual name contains the common name the observations were entered using the common name, not the scientific name. You will see that it has a different Taxon_list_item_key. Taxon Name in the report wizard contains the name that was used to enter the observation so this will contain the common name when that was used for data entry.
Thanks Sally, I think I follow it. I tend to use both Taxon Latin Name and Taxon Common Name in any report so hadn't really picked this up before. Do you know if this still happens, or is this just an issue with older data? How would you recommend fixing this? I appear to have at least 12 butterfly taxa where an incorrect sub-species has been assigned and 17 where the presumably correct one has, some of which have records that only appear on a taxon report against the Taxon Group 'insect - butterfly' (as above + DG Frit & GV White)
Extract from St03 query - bottom row records did not appear in R3 or LEP queries
Taxon list item key Actual name Common name Preferred name No sp obsv Taxon list
NBNSYS0000078133 Argynnis aglaja Dark Green Fritillary Argynnis aglaja 478 Recorder 3.3 (1998)
NHMSYS0000550389 Argynnis aglaja Dark Green Fritillary Argynnis aglaja 8 LEPIDOPTERA
NHMSYS0000550542 Dark Green Fritillary Dark Green Fritillary Argynnis aglaja 7 LEPIDOPTERA
NBNSYS0000078134 Argynnis aglaja subsp. aglaja Dark Green Fritillary Argynnis aglaja subsp. aglaja 10 Recorder 3.3 (1998)
NBNSYS0000125001 Dark Green Fritillary Dark Green Fritillary Argynnis aglaja subsp. aglaja 3 Recorder 3.3 (1998)
If when you enter observations using Data Entry – Enter a species record you type part of the common name in the taxon box and click Enter to select the species, the observation will go in with the Taxon_list_item_key for the common name, not the one for the scientific name. If you use the Get button (magnifying glass) to select the species from the taxon dictionary then it will go in with the Taxon_list_item_key for the scientific name. The same is true for the Add Species box on recording cards, also for the Taxon box on a taxon determination when you add a taxon occurrence directly into the observation hierarchy. It also happens if you match common names when importing data using the import wizard although if you use the Get button to select the species for any unmatched species, the observations for those will go in with the Taxon_list_item_key for the scientific name.
If these are causing problems with say, reports, I suggest using the report wizard to do a report for the problem taxa – setting condition(s) on Taxon Name should enable you to restrict the report to just the observations that have been entered using the common names. From the filter result, click on each observation in turn to go to it in the observation hierarchy and edit it. If you use the get button to get the taxon again from the taxon dictionary you will effectively change it to use the Taxon_list_item_key for the scientific name. This solution will be all right if there aren’t too many to correct but you may need to consider a batch update if it isn’t practical to use this approach.
Several points here I think:
1. There are records that have been incorrectly attributed to a subspecies, due to entry with the english name. These need to be corrected. A batch update would be useful. As I have no experience with them, I am more likely to use the report wizard.
2. Steps could be taken to reduce the possibility of this happening again. This appears to happen where the english name applies to both the species and its subspecies, presumably causing an inexperienced user to accidentally pick the wrong option in the Find Taxon dialogue box. Modifying the common name for these subspecies - to indicate their restricted distribution (e.g. Scottish/Irish/Scilly race) would help in these cases. Even changing the order in which they appear in the Find Taxon box may help.
3. Reporting. Martin's original problem (sorry to have slightly hijacked it). Some of the names do not seem to match across for reporting purposes - at least 6 butterflies alone, leading to inaccurate reports.
Work is in progress to resolve the problems in Recorder 6 caused by the taxon dictionary. The Natural History Museum have done various updates and now the specification of the changes required in Recorder is underway. These should resolve the Dark Green Fritillary problem you mentioned in your post on 25/03/11 but it would be useful to know of other cases. Could users please list those they know of so that the specification can be checked to help ensure that it caters for them. Reporting problems caused by the dictionary are considered to be amongst the most serious currently affecting Recorder. As such they are being addressed as high priority but this does mean that other fixes and enhancements will probably be delayed until the dictionary work is complete.
Those I have managed to spot are:
Taxon list item key Actual name Common name Preferred name No sp obsv Taxon list Taxon group Sort_Order
NBNSYS0000125001 Dark Green Fritillary Dark Green Fritillary Argynnis aglaja subsp. aglaja 3 Recorder 3.3 (1998) insect - butterfly 83
NBNSYS0000124944 Brimstone Brimstone Gonepteryx rhamni subsp. gravesi 2 Recorder 3.3 (1998) insect - butterfly 83
NBNSYS0000124963 Small Copper Small Copper Lycaena phlaeas subsp. eleus 1 Recorder 3.3 (1998) insect - butterfly 83
NBNSYS0000125031 Meadow Brown Meadow Brown Maniola jurtina subsp. cassiteridum 1 Recorder 3.3 (1998) insect - butterfly 83
NBNSYS0000124951 Green-Veined White Green-Veined White Pieris napi subsp. britannica 2 Recorder 3.3 (1998) insect - butterfly 83
NBNSYS0000124977 Common Blue Common Blue Polyommatus icarus subsp. icarus 1 Recorder 3.3 (1998) insect - butterfly 83
There doesn't seem to be a problem for me with White Admiral, but all our records are:
NBNSYS0000078108 Ladoga camilla White Admiral Ladoga camilla 140 Recorder 3.3 (1998) insect - butterfly 83
so the problem may be in the TLIK for White Admiral in the R3.3 list
Hi Gordon,
Not sure how this is going to display, but here are the mappings in the NAMESERVER for the species that you have listed. Where are common name can/has been applied to both a species and a subspecies/variety/form then we will, I am afraid, need to retain that mapping. However we could add some additional common names such as "Small Copper (Scottish subspecies)" if that would help for the future. (Strictly, the "(Scottish subspecies)" part should go in the Name ATTRIBUTE field). What I am not sure of is whether the use that Recorder makes TAXON_LIST_ITEMKEYs compounds the problem.
INPUT_TVK Input Name Input Authority RECOMMENDED TVK Rec Name Rec Authority
NHMSYS0020676212 brithegion gwyrdd NHMSYS0000516211 Argynnis aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0020676211 britheg werdd NHMSYS0000516211 Argynnis aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000551031 Dark Green Fritillary NHMSYS0000516211 Argynnis aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000516211 Argynnis aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758) NHMSYS0000516211 Argynnis aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000005565 Argynnis aglaja Linnaeus NHMSYS0000516211 Argynnis aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000042389 Argynnis aglaja subsp. aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758) NHMSYS0000841078 Argynnis aglaja form aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000551810 Dark Green Fritillary NHMSYS0000841078 Argynnis aglaja form aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000166420 Dark Green Fritillary NHMSYS0000841078 Argynnis aglaja form aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000841078 Argynnis aglaja form aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758) NHMSYS0000841078 Argynnis aglaja form aglaja (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000166420 Dark Green Fritillary NHMSYS0000501353 Argynnis aglaja form scotica Watkins, 1923
NHMSYS0000551810 Dark Green Fritillary NHMSYS0000501353 Argynnis aglaja form scotica Watkins, 1923
NHMSYS0000501353 Argynnis aglaja form scotica Watkins, 1923 NHMSYS0000501353 Argynnis aglaja form scotica Watkins, 1923
NBNSYS0000042390 Argynnis aglaja subsp. scotica (Watkins, 1923) NHMSYS0000501353 Argynnis aglaja form scotica Watkins, 1923
INPUT_TAXON_VERSION_KEY Input Name Input Authority RECOMMENDED TAXON_VERSION_KEY Rec Name Rec Authority
NBNSYS0100003277 Gonepteryx cleopatra (Linnaeus, 1767) NBNSYS0100003277 Gonepteryx cleopatra (Linnaeus, 1767)
NHMSYS0020676504 melynion y rhafnwydd NHMSYS0000516380 Gonepteryx rhamni (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000551016 Brimstone NHMSYS0000516380 Gonepteryx rhamni (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000005520 Gonepteryx rhamni Linnaeus NHMSYS0000516380 Gonepteryx rhamni (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000516380 Gonepteryx rhamni (Linnaeus, 1758) NHMSYS0000516380 Gonepteryx rhamni (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0020676503 melyn y rhafnwydd NHMSYS0000516380 Gonepteryx rhamni (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000042375 Gonepteryx rhamni subsp. gravesi Huggins, 1956 NBNSYS0000042375 Gonepteryx rhamni subsp. gravesi Huggins, 1956
NBNSYS0000165458 Brimstone NBNSYS0000042375 Gonepteryx rhamni subsp. gravesi Huggins, 1956
NBNSYS0000165458 Brimstone NBNSYS0000042374 Gonepteryx rhamni subsp. rhamni (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000042374 Gonepteryx rhamni subsp. rhamni (Linnaeus, 1758) NBNSYS0000042374 Gonepteryx rhamni subsp. rhamni (Linnaeus, 1758)
INPUT_TAXON_VERSION_KEY Input Name Input Authority RECOMMENDED TAXON_VERSION_KEY Rec Name Rec Authority
NHMSYS0020676117 copor bach NHMSYS0000516465 Lycaena phlaeas (Linnaeus, 1761)
NHMSYS0020676118 coprau bach NHMSYS0000516465 Lycaena phlaeas (Linnaeus, 1761)
NHMSYS0000551111 Small Copper NHMSYS0000516465 Lycaena phlaeas (Linnaeus, 1761)
NBNSYS0000005534 Lycaena phlaeas Linnaeus NHMSYS0000516465 Lycaena phlaeas (Linnaeus, 1761)
NHMSYS0000516465 Lycaena phlaeas (Linnaeus, 1761) NHMSYS0000516465 Lycaena phlaeas (Linnaeus, 1761)
NBNSYS0000042381 Lycaena phlaeas subsp. eleus (Fabricius, 1798) NBNSYS0000042381 Lycaena phlaeas subsp. eleus (Fabricius, 1798)
NBNSYS0000170642 Small Copper NBNSYS0000042381 Lycaena phlaeas subsp. eleus (Fabricius, 1798)
NBNSYS0000042382 Lycaena phlaeas subsp. hibernica Goodson, 1948 NBNSYS0000042382 Lycaena phlaeas subsp. hibernica Goodson, 1948
NBNSYS0000170642 Small Copper NBNSYS0000042382 Lycaena phlaeas subsp. hibernica Goodson, 1948
NHMSYS0000503120 Lycaena phlaeas subsp. phlaeus (Linnaeus, 1761) NHMSYS0000503120 Lycaena phlaeas subsp. phlaeus (Linnaeus, 1761)
INPUT_TAXON_VERSION_KEY Input Name Input Authority RECOMMENDED TAXON_VERSION_KEY Rec Name Rec Authority
NHMSYS0020676555 gweirloynod y ddôl NHMSYS0000521977 Maniola jurtina (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000005586 Maniola jurtina Linnaeus NHMSYS0000521977 Maniola jurtina (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000521977 Maniola jurtina (Linnaeus, 1758) NHMSYS0000521977 Maniola jurtina (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000551080 Meadow Brown NHMSYS0000521977 Maniola jurtina (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0020676554 gweirlöyn y ddôl NHMSYS0000521977 Maniola jurtina (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000005588 Maniola jurtina subsp. cassiteridum Graves NHMSYS0000503159 Maniola jurtina subsp. cassiteridum Graves, 1930
NHMSYS0000503159 Maniola jurtina subsp. cassiteridum Graves, 1930 NHMSYS0000503159 Maniola jurtina subsp. cassiteridum Graves, 1930
NBNSYS0000168776 Meadow Brown NHMSYS0000503159 Maniola jurtina subsp. cassiteridum Graves, 1930
NBNSYS0000168776 Meadow Brown NBNSYS0000042397 Maniola jurtina subsp. iernes Graves, 1930
NBNSYS0000042397 Maniola jurtina subsp. iernes Graves, 1930 NBNSYS0000042397 Maniola jurtina subsp. iernes Graves, 1930
NBNSYS0000005587 Maniola jurtina subsp. insularis Thompson NHMSYS0000503160 Maniola jurtina subsp. insularis Thompson, 1969
NHMSYS0000503160 Maniola jurtina subsp. insularis Thompson, 1969 NHMSYS0000503160 Maniola jurtina subsp. insularis Thompson, 1969
NBNSYS0000168776 Meadow Brown NHMSYS0000503160 Maniola jurtina subsp. insularis Thompson, 1969
NHMSYS0000503161 Maniola jurtina subsp. jurtina (Linnaeus, 1758) NHMSYS0000503161 Maniola jurtina subsp. jurtina (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000168776 Meadow Brown NHMSYS0000503162 Maniola jurtina subsp. splendida White, 1871
NBNSYS0000005589 Maniola jurtina subsp. splendida White NHMSYS0000503162 Maniola jurtina subsp. splendida White, 1871
NHMSYS0000503162 Maniola jurtina subsp. splendida White, 1871 NHMSYS0000503162 Maniola jurtina subsp. splendida White, 1871
INPUT_TAXON_VERSION_KEY Input Name Input Authority RECOMMENDED TAXON_VERSION_KEY Rec Name Rec Authority
NHMSYS0000551841 Green-Veined White NHMSYS0000516630 Pieris napi (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0020676514 gwyn gwythïen werdd NHMSYS0000516630 Pieris napi (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0020676515 gwynion gwythïen werdd NHMSYS0000516630 Pieris napi (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000551050 Green-veined White NHMSYS0000516630 Pieris napi (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000516630 Pieris napi (Linnaeus, 1758) NHMSYS0000516630 Pieris napi (Linnaeus, 1758)
NBNSYS0000005525 Pieris napi Linnaeus NHMSYS0000516630 Pieris napi (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000503828 Pieris napi subsp. britannica Müller & Kautz, 1939 NBNSYS0000042378 Pieris napi subsp. britannica Verity, 1911
NBNSYS0000167479 Green-Veined White NBNSYS0000042378 Pieris napi subsp. britannica Verity, 1911
NBNSYS0000042378 Pieris napi subsp. britannica Verity, 1911 NBNSYS0000042378 Pieris napi subsp. britannica Verity, 1911
NHMSYS0000502770 Green-veined White NBNSYS0000042378 Pieris napi subsp. britannica Verity, 1911
NHMSYS0000503829 Pieris napi subsp. napi (Linnaeus, 1758) NHMSYS0000503829 Pieris napi subsp. napi (Linnaeus, 1758)
NHMSYS0000503833 Pieris septentrionalis Verity, 1916 NHMSYS0000503830 Pieris napi subsp. sabellicae Stephens, 1827
NBNSYS0000042376 Pieris napi subsp. sabellicae (Stephens, 1827) NHMSYS0000503830 Pieris napi subsp. sabellicae Stephens, 1827
NHMSYS0000502770 Green-veined White NHMSYS0000503830 Pieris napi subsp. sabellicae Stephens, 1827
NHMSYS0000503830 Pieris napi subsp. sabellicae Stephens, 1827 NHMSYS0000503830 Pieris napi subsp. sabellicae Stephens, 1827
NBNSYS0000167479 Green-Veined White NHMSYS0000503830 Pieris napi subsp. sabellicae Stephens, 1827
NBNSYS0000042377 Pieris napi subsp. thomsoni Warren, 1968 NBNSYS0100004699 Pieris napi subsp. thompsoni Warren, 1968
NHMSYS0000502770 Green-veined White NBNSYS0100004699 Pieris napi subsp. thompsoni Warren, 1968
NBNSYS0100004699 Pieris napi subsp. thompsoni Warren, 1968 NBNSYS0100004699 Pieris napi subsp. thompsoni Warren, 1968
NBNSYS0000167479 Green-Veined White NBNSYS0100004699 Pieris napi subsp. thompsoni Warren, 1968
INPUT_TAXON_VERSION_KEY Input Name Input Authority RECOMMENDED TAXON_VERSION_KEY Rec Name Rec Authority
NBNSYS0000005545 Polyommatus icarus (Tean form) Rott. NHMSYS0000516660 Polyommatus icarus (Rottemburg, 1775)
NBNSYS0000005544 Polyommatus icarus Rottemburg, 1775 NHMSYS0000516660 Polyommatus icarus (Rottemburg, 1775)
NHMSYS0020676146 glesyn cyffredin NHMSYS0000516660 Polyommatus icarus (Rottemburg, 1775)
NHMSYS0020676145 gleision cyffredin NHMSYS0000516660 Polyommatus icarus (Rottemburg, 1775)
NHMSYS0000516660 Polyommatus icarus (Rottemburg, 1775) NHMSYS0000516660 Polyommatus icarus (Rottemburg, 1775)
NHMSYS0000551021 Common Blue NHMSYS0000516660 Polyommatus icarus (Rottemburg, 1775)
NBNSYS0000042385 Polyommatus icarus subsp. icarus (Rottemburg, 1775) NBNSYS0000042385 Polyommatus icarus subsp. icarus (Rottemburg, 1775)
NBNSYS0000165982 Common Blue NBNSYS0000042385 Polyommatus icarus subsp. icarus (Rottemburg, 1775)
NBNSYS0100004797 Polyommatus icarus subsp. mariscolore (Kane, 1893) NBNSYS0100004797 Polyommatus icarus subsp. mariscolore (Kane, 1893)
NBNSYS0000165982 Common Blue NBNSYS0100004797 Polyommatus icarus subsp. mariscolore (Kane, 1893)
NBNSYS0000042386 Polyommatus icarus subsp. marsicolore (Kane, 1893) NBNSYS0100004797 Polyommatus icarus subsp. mariscolore (Kane, 1893)
INPUT_TAXON_VERSION_KEY Input Name Input Authority RECOMMENDED TAXON_VERSION_KEY Rec Name Rec Authority
NBNSYS0000005551 Ladoga camilla Linnaeus, 1758 NBNSYS0100003750 Limenitis camilla (Linnaeus, 1764)
NBNSYS0100003750 Limenitis camilla (Linnaeus, 1764) NBNSYS0100003750 Limenitis camilla (Linnaeus, 1764)
NBNSYS0000171741 White Admiral NBNSYS0100003750 Limenitis camilla (Linnaeus, 1764)
NHMSYS0020676166 mentyll gwyn NBNSYS0100003750 Limenitis camilla (Linnaeus, 1764)
NHMSYS0020676165 mantell wen NBNSYS0100003750 Limenitis camilla (Linnaeus, 1764)
NHMSYS0000516410 Ladoga camilla (Linnaeus, 1764) NBNSYS0100003750 Limenitis camilla (Linnaeus, 1764)
Best wishes,
Charles Hussey
This continues to confuse me. Just looking at one example from above where there appears to be a discrepancy - DGFrit, TLIK NBNSYS0000125001. This has the TVK of NBNSYS0000166420 in the TLI table. TVK NBNSYS0000166420 links to 2 recommended TVKs in Charles' post NHMSYS0000501353 and NHMSYS0000841078. Could this mean that any discrepance is double counting? i.e. rather than 3 records missing from one query they have been included twice in the other.
There is at least one case where form has been included in the name, in the R3.3 list there is Polyommatus icarus (Tean form), probably where i got the idea, and another rather annoying one where records keep turning up by user error.
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