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Re: Quick Report - Again

Hi
I've been browsing records for species direct from the taxon dictionary using the mapping facility then followed this up with a quick report using one of our custom reports.  Dragging the species name from the heirarchy onto the map produced a map with the correct number of records whereas using the quick report option returned none. On delving I realised that this was because the records had been entered using a different dictionary to the one I had queried from. If I queried again using a different checklist I got the right result or a different result depending on how many checklists had been used to enter records for the particular species. This makes this option pretty useless as far as I'm concerned.

This was reported last year by Dave at KMBRC for the 'Places for Occurences' report.  The same thing happens for me with this report too, so presumably this issue wasn't corrected in the new version as was hoped at the time.  However my custom report works fine when done from the report wizard, returning all the records I would expect. It's horribly inconsistant to have two different outcomes happening (ie with the mapping then the quick reports) from the same place - with no warning!

Help please....

Thanks
Purgle
WSBRC

Purgle Linham
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

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Re: Quick Report - Again

Which report were you using? If it was an xml report you have written yourselves, you will need to take account of the fact that observations could be input using different lists. System supplied reports should take account of this if ‘Use Full Translation to Preferred Term’ on the General tab on Tools - Options is ticked although the places for occurrences report doesn’t, as Dave Giffen at KMBRC and others have found. This is a longstanding problem that I have been alerting users to on the training courses I run for years. It is a pity John’s fix http://forums.nbn.org.uk/viewtopic.php?pid=5419#p5419 didn’t make it into v6.15. Unfortunately JNCC’s resources don’t run to fixing all reported problems so they aim to fix the highest priority ones. The release notes that accompany each release will indicate what has been fixed but not always in terms that are easy to understand unless you are familiar with the reported problem. If, as John says, it is a fairly small task to change this report to use the NameServer, we may see it included in a release sooner rather than later although the places for occurrences report could do with a more comprehensive overhaul.

Sally Rankin, JNCC Recorder Approved Expert
E-mail: s.rankin@btinternet.com
Telephone: 01491 578633
Mobile: 07941 207687

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Re: Quick Report - Again

Hi Sally, thanks for the reply, although it leaves us not much the wiser. Perhaps I can clarify matters from our end a little.

The report in question was generated by use of the Report Wizard and when it is run from the wizard it performs correctly, returning all records regardless of the list they were originally recorded against.

The problem Purgle has identified is that if you drag a taxon from the taxon dictionary hierarchy window onto the map window it maps all records, not just those recorded against the current list. However if you right-click on the taxon in the hierarchy and choose our (wizard saved) report from the quick-reports dropdown, this only returns those records recorded against the current list.

John's fix is not described in detail within the link you supply, but seems to involve using the nameserver instead of index_taxon_synonym. Our report however, as it was built by the wizard, uses two copies of index_taxon_name connected back-to-back using the recommended _taxon_list_item_key in both tables to create the join. As I understand it the ITN table is populated using the nameserver, so I presume that this method effectively incorporates John's fix.

If all of the above is true, then it would appear that selecting the report from the right-click menu is not fully implementing the saved report query, rather it is just using the report format to determine which columns should be returned, after selecting using a much simpler query which totally misses the synonymy.

This seems like a pretty major bug to me. If I tell Recorder I want it to use Report X, I want it to actually return the records which we expect from Report X, not the results of some other, undocumented and invisible query, dressed up to look like Report X. At the very least I would like to be reminded every time I use this method, that the results I am getting are not necessarily what I expected.

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

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Re: Quick Report - Again

Hi Rob,
I don't disagree there is a bug here, but I think the analysis is not quite right. The way reporting works in Recorder is that there are 3 components. Firstly, the filter (what records go in the report). Secondly, what attributes are being included. Thirdly, what will be done with the output (results grid, printable layout, snapshot etc). When you define a report in the Wizard, you are specifying all 3 of these components. But when you re-use that report in various ways, you are replacing one of the components. For example, if you select this report as an existing attribute selection whilst using the Report Wizard, you are only choosing to re-use the attributes part of the report. When you right click on any node in a hierarchy and select the Quick Report option, you are specifying a complete replacement filter for the report but re-using the attribute selection and output of the report. You can't expect it to hybridise the original method of selecting the records to include with your new one. If you wanted to run Report X as it was originally intended then you have the Run Reports dialog.

BUT, that does not get us away from the fact that you would quite rightly expect the use of a taxon in the hierarchy as a report filter to fully respect the Use Full Translation to Preferred Term option. As far as I can see you are right, this option is being ignored. I will make sure this is added to the buglist for consideration for the next version.

John van Breda
Biodiverse IT

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Re: Quick Report - Again

OK that makes a bit more sense John, thanks.

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

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Re: Quick Report - Again

An update on this - the Quick Reports generated by the Taxon Dictionary will properly respect the Use Full Translation to Preferred Term option in the next release of Recorder.

John van Breda
Biodiverse IT

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Re: Quick Report - Again

Great, thanks John

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre