1 Reply by brianmiller

  • brianmiller
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Re: Finding Common Names listed in Scientific Name?

I have been looking at the reports and have come up with some discrepencies which I think I know why (for some) but do not know how to sort out.

When I run a report using the wizard specifying a location name I get 537 records.
When I run the same as a query in the database I get the same (537 records). Great!

If I run a Location Summary Report to the same site using the Reports, Run, Site Reports... I get a 116 species count.
When I go to the site in the Location Hierarchy and go to Quick Report, Species Report, Detailed Spp list I get 96 records, i.e. spp count. (Not 116)
In the database when I run a Distinct Count on Taxon_List_Item.Taxon_Version_Key I get 92 records. (Not 116 or 96).

The 4 different records in the last two (92 instead of 96) are down to 4 species being listed in the Recorder reports with their common name also in the Scientific name column. I remember in the past if you typed in the common name it would enter as that when entering data. What I do not know is how to find these to correct them, if I need to to sort out the different figures?

Also, why do I get a different figure between the Site Summary Report (116 spp) and the Detailed Species List report (96 spp). Surely they should be the same? I see in the xml that the Site Summary Report uses Taxon List Item, whilst the Detailed Spp List uses Index Taxon Name. But when I use these in the database I still get the same results from both tables as before i.e. 92 distinct records.

Can anyone shed any light on this one for me please as it has stumped me all afternoon.

Many thanks

Brian

Brian Miller
(Conservation Officer (Buckinghamshire), BBOWT)

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2 Reply by Rob B

  • Rob B
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Re: Finding Common Names listed in Scientific Name?

Hi Brian,

Workaround time again!  Like yourself, we've experienced identical discrepancies from the same outputs. So basically, we don't use the quick reports for anything except during training to start to show how to link windows.

Where there's common names showing up in scientific, here's what I've got volunteers to do:

A. Make a list (on paper) of which species are present like this (from a printout of a report)
B. Physically check recording cards to confirm the above.
C. Rebuild the relevant rucksacks which populate the cards.
D. Run only custom made reports via the wizard.

The other protocol here is that DO NOT USE the 'Add species' to a recording card, amend the rucksack instead. It's time consuming, but it works.

The 'why does this happen?' question I've got no idea about.

Cheers now Rob.

3 Reply by brianmiller

  • brianmiller
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Re: Finding Common Names listed in Scientific Name?

Hmm, ok I am quite confused now. Sorry.

Rob B wrote:

B. Physically check recording cards to confirm the above.

I have checked all our RCs and none of them have the common names in them. I suspect this is because they are getting the scientific names correctly.

Looking at the Detailed spp list xml report and the database I see that Index_Taxon_Name.Actual_Name is used. In this field there are lots of entries of these common names like Gatekeeper, Marbled White, Large Skipper and some birds.

When I look at the records using the Taxon_Occurrence_Key in Recorder they are all displaying their scientific name, so I can not tell that they are entered under their common name. When I look at the Taxon_List_Item_Key for these common names in Actual_Name they are the same as the ones for the Actual_Name which is the scientific name of the species, i.e. e.g. Pyronia tithonus.

So, how does the Actual_Name get populated, from what/where? Why have the Actual_Name at all and not just use the Preferred_Name.

Is there a way I can change ALL these common names in the Actual_Name to their scientific names (Preferred_Name)? Or should I not be thinking to do this?

Any ideas?

Cheers

Brian

Brian Miller
(Conservation Officer (Buckinghamshire), BBOWT)

brianmiller's Website

4 Reply by charlesroper

  • charlesroper
  • charlesroper
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Re: Finding Common Names listed in Scientific Name?

Brian,

Do you have sub-sites sitting below the location you're querying?

In 6.9.2, when adding species to a recording card, the scientific name goes into the scientific name column and the common name goes into the common name column. I don't know if that will solve the problem, though.

I think these inconsist results that get generated from Recorder reflect really badly on the product. I get lots of questions back from those using Recorder here in Sussex regarding the lack of consistency when reporting via various means. I think there needs to be a real push to bring this aspect of Recorder up-to-scratch. I'll see if I can find time to post some examples but they mainly stem from older reports and add-ins that don't use the nameserver.

Charles

Charles Roper
Digital Development Manager | Field Studies Council
http://www.field-studies-council.org | https://twitter.com/charlesroper | https://twitter.com/fsc_digital

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5 Reply by brianmiller

  • brianmiller
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Re: Finding Common Names listed in Scientific Name?

charlesr wrote:

In 6.9.2, when adding species to a recording card, the scientific name goes into...

So there should not be a problem with this now like in the past?

The issue is not now in entering data, but accessing the data that is already in the database. I think in the past somehow these common names got into the Actual_Name column, but it does not make sense for them to be there as clearly they are being thrown up in reports as additional species counts when in fact they are the same species as its scientific named counterpart.

Also, in terms of inconcistencies with the reports, I think this is down to the tables that are used in the reports (probably what you were saying Charles in the previous email).

Going back to my query though,

brianmiller wrote:

So, how does the Actual_Name get populated, from what/where? Why have the Actual_Name at all and not just use the Preferred_Name?

Is there a way I can change ALL these common names in the Actual_Name to their scientific names (Preferred_Name)? Or should I not be thinking to do this?

Cheers

Brian

Brian Miller
(Conservation Officer (Buckinghamshire), BBOWT)

brianmiller's Website

6 Reply by charlesroper

  • charlesroper
  • charlesroper
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Re: Finding Common Names listed in Scientific Name?

I don't know the answers to your query Brian and have often wondered the same myself. You're talking about the Actual_Name in the index_taxon_name table, right? What I do now in my own queries is to join the index_taxon_name table onto itself via the Recommended_Taxon_List_Item_Key, which gives me preferred names only and thus consistent results. I can post an example if you like? This only helps with external queries and XML reports though.

Charles

Charles Roper
Digital Development Manager | Field Studies Council
http://www.field-studies-council.org | https://twitter.com/charlesroper | https://twitter.com/fsc_digital

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7 Reply by Sarah Shaw

  • Sarah Shaw
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Re: Finding Common Names listed in Scientific Name?

Hello everyone

The Actual_Name is the name that was originally used to enter your record, so if I click on the add a species button and type in 'Common Blackbird', the Actual_Name would be 'Common Blackbird'. However, the Preferred name would be 'Turdus merula'.

With abit of delving into the species dictionary (using the example above only) I cannot see that this would cause a problem with reporting, as entering a species in V6.7.2 in this way still 'points' to the correct preferred name (although I cannot say that this will happen in all cases).

I've tried to reproduce the problem with inconsistent reporting results here but with no luck.

Brian -  Is it possible for you to provide more details so I can look into this further? Remind me again which version you are using? How were (at least the majority of) these records entered?

Is it possible to provide me with a small dataset where the problem is occurring so that I can investigate? Please email me one if you can.

Many thanks, 

Sarah

Sarah Shaw
Biodiversity Information Assistant
JNCC

Sarah Shaw
Biodiversity Information Assistant
JNCC

8 Reply by brianmiller

  • brianmiller
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Re: Finding Common Names listed in Scientific Name?

Thanks Sarah,

I have sent you the files this morning.

Charles, interestingly this is what I have done to produce my 'correct' (?) number of species in the database, so I assume the Detailed Species List report does not do this join? I have not been able to reproduce in the database the 116 species count as is produced from the Location Summary Report from Reports, Run from the Parent site of the example location.

Thanks Sarah for being able to investigate this.

Cheers

Brian

Brian Miller
(Conservation Officer (Buckinghamshire), BBOWT)

brianmiller's Website