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Re: Ability to change survey/event/sample hierarchy

I would like to be able to change the hierarchy of survey/event/sample for data imported from MapMate - this would not affect the validity of the MapMate data since the hierarchy is not part of the original MapMate - it is really annoying when I receive data, import it and find a dozen survey events (with one sample) - all from the same person/place but with minor grid ref differences - I would like to combine these samples all within one event, but the protection created by Recorder disallows any changes to hierarchy.

It would also be useful to be able to change the site details on an imported record, because I occasionally find the match used in the import can be improved, but this cannot be done on MapMate records

The sample and event already do not contain the original MapMate key, they can't since the keys are unique to the taxon occurrence, therefore they could be set without the protection, providing taxon occurrences could not be changed or moved

Craig Slawson
Staffordshire Ecological Record

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Re: Ability to change survey/event/sample hierarchy

I just tried this Craig and it seems to work for the first problem. The conflict which stops you moving samples only occurs if either the location or spatial ref values conflict, so if you have a survey event with the date & recorders you need, but with neither location nor spatial ref fields completed, but with something in location name instead, then you can at least drag and drop all the samples into your new event, regardless of what spatial ref information the samples include.

Thats a workaround and useless for a large dataset, but it might give you clues as to where to go next. I would imagine it would be possible to create a batch update which would merge all the samples into one event without going via Recorder's protection routines.

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

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Re: Ability to change survey/event/sample hierarchy

What rules would you use in the batch update to group "slightly different" spatial references together? If this rule was simple and clear-cut then perhaps it could be incorporated into the Import Wizard. I.e. if there are 2 records made by the same people at the same place on the same date, then they are assumed to be the same event and sample. But if they are a small distance apart, then they will be different samples, but how does the importer or batch update decide they are the same event?
One proposal might be that if the location they are allocated to is the same, then we can make a single event even if the spatial references are different. How does that sound?

John van Breda
Biodiverse IT

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Re: Ability to change survey/event/sample hierarchy

John, it seems to me that the ability to import the sample spatial information and that of the event seperately would do the trick. Could the events not be grouped by either location or location name?

On a related issue, would it be possible for the import wizard to search for pre-existing events and/or samples to add occurrences to.

We have been importing some huge datasets recently, mainly of fungi and lichen records and we have found it more practical to import a few thousand (up to about 20-30,000) at a time. Since the tables being imported have been sorted by species name, different chunks of the dataset have contained occurences which were collected in the same sample, but each generate a new event and sample, this has created a very fragmented hierarchy with many duplicate events (or at least we assume that is how it has happened). I realise that sorting the data by location and date  would solve this, if we remember to do it each time, but surely it would be better if the software could handle this automatically.

A refinement of the same problem is that many of these records have an association with a tree species and the import creates a new record of that species for each associated lichen or fungus record. I have seen samples in which there are twenty or more Oak records, all of which share the same location, spatial ref, date and recorders. One consequence of this is that data we exchange with our vascular plant county recorder appears to contain 12,000 duplicate records (at least 9000 of these are plants associated with fungi. One record associated with all the fungi would be tidier.

Rob Large
Wildlife Sites Officer
Wiltshire & Swindon Biological Records Centre

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Re: Ability to change survey/event/sample hierarchy

Rob - it is interesting that you can move a sample from one survey event to another even though they are 'MapMate' coded - I can't - it doesn't give an error message, but just will not let me 'drag and drop'

Rob (again) - I agree with your idea about checking for existing survey events, I've spent ages combining identical events together after importing a dataset in chunks!

John - my thoughts would be that all samples with the same recorder(s), date & location should be combined in a single survey event, but not sure what grid ref the Event should have , theoretically is should be one which encloses all the references of the samples, but not easy if the site straddles a 10kmsq boundary (which they always seem to do!) - since the location names could differ, the survey event should also have this field blank

Craig Slawson
Staffordshire Ecological Record

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Re: Ability to change survey/event/sample hierarchy

I can see a situation where I would want any samples from different sub-sites of the same location to be included in an event based at that parent location, and also might also want different dates to be combined - e.g. samples on 1st, 2nd & 3rd March could be included in an event that ran across those dates. There are also cases where different observers should be included. I suppose the issue might be whether this would overcomplicate the import process.

There is almost always an amount of consolidation to be done after import. I wonder if it would be possible to have some sort of 'super-merge' function where a group of events, possibly within the post-import filter, could be combined into one. This would then span the dates, add recorders and open a dialogue for location confirmation if necessary. I suppose repeated normal merge procedures would do the same thing but you have to close down every other window on merges, which would make this a bit of a pain.

(possibly supercedes a previous suggestion - http://forums.nbn.org.uk/viewtopic.php?id=1033 - don't know if it was implemented in the last update)

Gordon

Gordon Barker
Biological Survey Data Manager
National Trust