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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Hi,

I've been away from the Smartgroup forum for a while - a month in Arizona and then catching up with ringing nestlings on return - but I now need to decide what to do and would like some advice, please!

- I have been using Recorder 2002
- I need to be able to use the BOU checklist of bird species recently updated (ie including Lesser Redpoll, etc, with scientific names like Cyanistes caeruleus for Blue Tit)
- I need to be able to import files of data (less than one day to import 1000 records - I seem to remember reading that horror story a few months back)
- I will be running the program on a stand alone computer
- I will wish to import all the names, locations and species records from R2K2

If R2K2 is no longer being upgraded, I suppose that the new BOU checklist is not available for it (I tried looking on the NBN website before going away and could not find it)...

Should I upgrade to R6 or try to use another program all together?

Any views? I need to make the change within the next couple of months.

I will be grateful for any advice....

Thanks, Ian

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Ian

Can you post some specifications of your computer (operating system, memory, CPU), also how many records you are likely to have in the database so we can give you some ideas as to what you might expect from Recorder 6.

Thanks

John van Breda
Biodiverse IT

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Hi John

I have a Dell 8400 with 3.4 GHz and 2 Gb of RAM with lots of hard disk capacity. I can't tell you how many records I have on the database as the screen that shows it when Recorder starts always comes up with an error message and I never see it now. I think I have 10.000+ records and expect to accumulate at c 10.000 each year (please see the results of the survey for my computer details if that helps).

Currently, I do like the way the Import Wizard ensures that the data are 'clean'. However, I do not like that there are two species lists - one for the import and another when looking at the records held, from the taxonomic list - they should be the same, and for me, I need the BOU 2004 checklist.

I look forward to receiving your advice.

Thanks, Ian

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

You should see excellent performance for most tasks in Recorder 6 with this specification of machine.  Can someone else comment on the BOU 2004 checklist issue?  In Recorder 6 there are no distinctions between lists you import against and those you view against, though some lists are marked for browsing only and not for data entry.

John van Breda
Biodiverse IT

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

I have been referring to the BOU Checklist 2004 - the year when relevant articles appeared in Ibis. However, the revised British List has now been published as 'The British List: A Checklist of Birds of Britain (7th edition)' Ibis (2006), 148, 526-563. This is the definitive list that now needs to be incorporated into Recorder 6. If the relevant person wishes, I could supply the article as a pdf and I will be updating, and if necessary, correcting my own list in Excel. Please contact me if that could speed up having this list available for all uses in R6.

Cheers, Ian

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Dear Ian,

Thank you for your kind offer of help. I haven’t had chance to look at the 2006 list yet (it was only published this week!), but there shouldn’t be a problem in any case.

We include two versions of the BOU list within the Species Dictionary: “British Ornithologists' Union British List (Categories A, B, C)” and “British Ornithologists' Union categories D and E”.

Both lists are maintained with the help of Steve Dudley (lead author of the new British List) and track any changes and additions that the BOU make, so are fully up to date and should remain that way in the future. We’ve also ensured that a full taxonomic hierarchy and naming authorities are included in the copy of the British List that we hold.

Including the lists as maintained (i.e. dynamic) versions means that we do not need to add an entirely new list whenever an update such as the 2006 list is produced. This is a far more efficient way to manage the data and hopefully less confusing for the user. If there is a pressing reason why the 2006 list should also be added as a stand-alone product, please let me know though.

I’m not sure whether JNCC have included the above lists in both Recorder 6 and 2000, but they should certainly be in Recorder 6 and will include the naming that you requested in your original post.

Please contact me directly if you’d like further detail,
John

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Hi John

The idea of a dynamic version of any checklist is a good one, but I am puzzled that I have still not received a definitive reply that the equivalent of the British List 2006 (the birds lists have been available since 2004) is available and working within R6. Surely there must be someone out there using R6 who records some birds?

I'm not convinced that I should change to R6 only if there 'ought' to be the latest BOU checklist available in it.

Please, someone, is it available in R6 or not?

Cheers, Ian

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Ian, Recorder 6 does not include a seperate 2006 list. However, from what John says above, the 'dynamic' birds list used by R6 - BIRDS Natural History Museum/British Ornithologists' Union checklist of British birds (Class Aves) - contains the same data contained in the 2006 publication. If anything, it should be even more up-to-date. So, I would say in answer to your query that, yes, the equivalent of the BOU 2006 list is included in R6. To be absolutely sure, though, are there any particular taxa I can check for you as a tester? Also, the following metadata associated with the list as found in R6 might be interesting to you:

Metadata for Taxon List: BIRDS Natural History Museum/British Ornithologists' Union checklist of British birds (Class Aves)

Taxon List Type: Other checklist

Description: This is our recommended checklist for British birds and is actively maintained by staff of the Natural History Museum. The list includes a comprehensive hierarchy and details accepted scientific and common names for species recorded from the UK (i.e. England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, surrounding islands and British Economic Waters (200km)). The Republic of Ireland and the Channel Islands are not included. The list is based on the revised checklist of the British Ornithologists' Union (BOU), the body responsible for maintaining the official British List. It includes all species that have been recorded at least once in an apparently natural state as well as introduced species that have established self-maintaining breeding populations. It excludes species for which there is reasonable doubt that they have ever occurred in a natural state along with introductions, transportees, or escapees from captivity whose breeding populations (if any) are thought not to be self-sustaining. Hence, the list covers their categories A-C, but not D or E. Further information is available through the BOU website at http://www.bou.org.uk/. Scientific nomenclature follows Voous's List of Recent Holarctic Bird Species (BOU 1977, revised edition) and the online BOU British List. Vernacular names follow the BOU Checklist of Birds of Britain and Ireland (6th Edition, 1992) and the online BOU British list. The original list was compiled in 2000 by Mark Adams and is maintained by John Tweddle (both of the Natural History Museum). This list is current.

Update Method: Ad hoc (updates supplied whenever necessary)

Installed Locally: Yes

Version: 1

Version Authority: The Natural History Museum

Version Applies From: 01/01/2000

Version Quality: The final copy was checked against the original NHM intranet version and the BOU website by John Tweddle.

Charles Roper
Digital Development Manager | Field Studies Council
http://www.field-studies-council.org | https://twitter.com/charlesroper | https://twitter.com/fsc_digital

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Ian,

I don't work on Recorder directly, hence why I couldn't give you a definitive answer. We (i.e. the Species Dictionary team at the Natural History Museum) send an updated copy of the Dictionary to JNCC on a periodic basis. The Recorder team then decide which new or amended naming data are appropriate for their needs and prepare and release an update for Recorder.

Given Charles' post, it's clear though that the lists to which I referred are not yet in Recorder 6 (the dynamic version of the BOU British List A-C actually replaces the NHM/BOU list that is currently in R6).

I've just checked with JNCC and they are planning to include the two BOU lists within the next update. JNCC will be able to let you know when this is likely. Until then, however, the naming within Recorder 6 (and 2002) will not be adequate for your needs, as it does not follow the 2006 BOU list.

This is a shame as it looks like the new BOU data just missed the deadline for the most recent Recorder update.

There are clearly a range of other factors to consider regarding upgrading, but whilst the above will hopefully soon be resolved, in the short-term Recorder 6 will not contain the naming that you require.

John

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

thanks John, I stand corrected.

An important point on this issue - the next update of R6 (version 6.8), which is due soon I believe, decouples program updates from dictionary updates. This means dictionary updates can be rolled into R6 independently of program updates, which means dictionaries can, in theory, be added to Recorder on an ad-hoc basis, whenever they are ready. At present, we have to wait for the program itself to be updated before we receive dictionary updates, which is why there are seemingly large gaps between dictionary updates.

Charles

Charles Roper
Digital Development Manager | Field Studies Council
http://www.field-studies-council.org | https://twitter.com/charlesroper | https://twitter.com/fsc_digital

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Hi Charles and John

Many thanks for the information you provided. As John pointed out, if the dynamic list is based on the Vouss 1977 list, then it is not the most up to date checklist with the names that I need.

If the dictionaries can now be updated independently of the program, is it likely that the BOU 2006 checklist will be incorporated within the next 3, 6, 12 or more months?

All the best, Ian

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Dear Ian

We are looking into revising the BOU check list and updating this as part of the consolidation of the species dictionary in version 6.8. We aim to release V6.8 by the end of August, and will provide regular updates of our progress on this forum.

Please see "Announcements> Consolidation of Recorder 6" for more details.

Regards

Sarah
Biodiversity Information Assistant
JNCC

Sarah Shaw
Biodiversity Information Assistant
JNCC

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Hi Sarah

That is good news. I assume the announcements you refer to are on the NBN website (or are they a part of this site I have not found yet?). I look forward to hearing about this development.

Many thanks, Ian

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Re: Recorder 6 or not?

Dear Ian

The announcements are part of this site, see http://forums.nbn.org.uk/viewtopic.php?id=74.

I will be posting a plan (probably by the end of this week) under the announcements section which will give more details of when we estimate certain aspects of work to be completed.

Sarah, JNCC

Sarah Shaw
Biodiversity Information Assistant
JNCC