1 Topic by TonyP

  • TonyP
  • TonyP
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  • From: Somerset
  • Registered: 15-05-2006
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Topic: Which Aconitum napellus agg.

I'm trying to work out why my Aconitum napellus agg. comes out as Aconitum napellus;

Because of the preffered names psudo synonyms I think I'm getting in some trouble. What was considered a notable in Somerset is being miss reported as the names are being changed by R6. To track down the problem I'm matching all of our R3 derived notables [2,500] with the current dictionary names and have quickly become puzzled.

I used a Rucksack to generate the list in R6 but with Aconitum napellus agg. I get out Aconitum napellus even though the preffered name is stated as Aconitum napellus agg.

Using one of the built in reports I look up the Preffered TLI key and click on the result. I takes me to the List of Additional Names.

So looking up the preffered name I get what I want when I ask for the TLI I get one from a non-prefferd list.

I'm back to old R6 chestnut why is my species another species and why is an Otter not an Otter when it can only be an Otter?

It seems it is almost impossible to enter data and have that same data come out! I do expect when I use the preffered list and it has a very specific name [a species] that is the species name that comes out of Recorder.

Is there any point in using prefferd lists if the key returned is not from the preffered list?

Data Manger
Somerset Environmental Records Centre

TonyP's Website

2 Reply by charliebarnes

  • charliebarnes
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Re: Which Aconitum napellus agg.

As an aside, do you use Mikes excellent "extra info" addin.  It provides some very useful "debugging" info when it comes to taxon occurrences.

http://forums.nbn.org.uk/viewtopic.php?pid=16151#p16151

Charlie Barnes
Information Officer
Greater Lincolnshire Nature Partnership

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3 Reply by MikeWeideli

  • MikeWeideli
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  • Registered: 05-07-2006
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Re: Which Aconitum napellus agg.

This is happening because NameServer is pointing both TV keys for Aconitum napellus agg. to Aconitum napellus. TV key NBNSYS0000002696 ( Aconitum napellus agg. sensu lato) and NHMSYS0000455575 ( Aconitum napellus agg.) both point to NHMSYS0000494973  ( Aconitum napellus sensu lato).  This might be correct because of the sensu lato, but  I don't profess to understand the taxononomy, so it might be worth getting Chris to take a look.

Mike Weideli

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4 Reply by MikeWeideli

  • MikeWeideli
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Re: Which Aconitum napellus agg.

Apparently the attribute sensu lato is effectively the equivalent to agg, so the Dictionary is correct. It does, however, highlight a few issues with R6. Firstly, the attribute ( eg. sensu lato )  isn't displayed in the observation hierarchy. This is on the list of modifications, but not sure when we can do it. However, the addin mentioned by Charlie will display this information, together with the name and attributes of the Recommended name.  Secondly, the report wizard doesn't  include the attribute for any of the names. This should  be easier to fix and I will look to see what can be done.

Mike Weideli

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5 Reply by ChrisR

  • ChrisR
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Re: Which Aconitum napellus agg.

Thanks Mike ... basically, my verdict on the problem was that the database is pointed correctly but Recorder6 might cause misunderstandings if names do not show the attribute segment. In Tony's case he was being shown the correct name but he couldn't see that it was an aggregate because it didn't display the "sensu lato" part.

To give some background ... a name is made up from 3 parts and you need all 3 to be 100% sure that you have what you think you have. These are: the name-string itself (eg. "Musca domestica" - the bit that it usually italicized); the authority (author's name & optional date and/or bracketing); and lastly the attribute such as (blank), "sensu lato", "sensu stricto", "auctt." etc.  Not all names have an attribute but when they do it is a very important component that you ignore at your peril ;)

In the case that Tony pointed out you have a variety of ways of saying the same thing:
1. Aconitum napellus agg. sensu lato
2. Aconitum napellus agg.
3. Aconitum napellus agg. L. sensu lato
4. Aconitum napellus sensu lato

They all pertain to a recording unit that has been created to allow people to refer to a group of very similar species that all look superficially like Aconitum napellus. In the Nameserver we have #1, #2 & #3 all pointed to #4 because the latter is the most taxonomically correct name of the lot. It doesn't have an authority because, as a group of species, it was never described by a single author on a specific date. The use of "agg." in the name is taxonomically irrelevant because "sensu lato" just means "in the broad sense" - if you have "sensu lato" you don't need to have "agg." :)

Chris Raper, Manager of the UK Species Inventory, Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity,
Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD.  (tel: 020 7942 5894)
also Tachinid Recording Scheme (http://tachinidae.org.uk/)