1 (edited by dgreves 24-05-2017 10:44:47)

Topic: Recorder conundrum

I'm an occasional recorder of scarce species in my county. In the past I've submitted interesting records to the local biodiversity information centre.

However I'm now told that they've withdrawn their (my) data from the NBN Atlas due to licensing concerns. I don't recall being consulted about this.

I want my freely contributed records to be freely available online to as many people as possible. So what do I (and other people like me) do in this situation? Do we re-input these records on iRecord and trust that they get deduplicated when they reach NBN somehow? Or is there a process for us to formally withdraw our information from existing private databases and transfer them across to NBN directly?

Either way it seems like the potential for confusion is high.

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Re: Recorder conundrum

I think this is all correct, but just speaking off the cuff as an ex-local records centre manager without double checking my facts or knowing the detail of what is happening in your area:

-  You can ask your records centre to remove your records from their database at any time (although it would be great if you could let them keep a copy to make sure the records continue to be used for local planning and conservation purposes, even though they aren't able to provide you with the online dissemination service you would like them to at the moment - this could be a temporary situation because they have other recorders/county recorders with licensing concerns that will take time to work out).

- You can ask for a copy of all your records from the records centre at any time. It shouldn't take them too long to provide you with this, because assuming they are using Recorder 6 or similar database they should be able to search for your name easily.

- You can pass a copy of your records to whoever else you like. In this case, assuming they are of a variety of taxa you should probably be looking to upload them to iRecord. I am not sure if iRecord has a spreadsheet upload facility, but it probably does, so this might not take you too much time. Don't worry unduly about duplication - this is an issue data users are used to dealing with.

- It will then depend on the taxa you are recording how long it takes for those records to get as far as the NBN Atlas from iRecord. Some taxa national recording schemes have enough verifiers and arrangements with BRC to get data from iRecord to the atlas quickly, but others don't.

- There isn't a way for individuals to provide records to the NBN atlas (to help ensure data quality) but if you are part of a group (e.g. a natural history society) then you could perhaps talk to the NBN team about other options. However, I'd encourage you to keep talking to your records centre about this and let them know it is important to you. It might take time but they might be able to find out which recorders want data to be shared and deal with their records separately. However it really does depend on the records centre and what their resources and priorities are - record centres are no longer funded to put data on the NBN nationally (in England as least), so the resources to do so need to be found by the record centre themselves. (And having uploaded a few datasets to NBN in my time, I know significant resources are needed both on the technical side and the liaison with data suppliers/recorders side.)

-----------------
Teresa Frost | Wetland Bird Survey National Organiser | BTO
Other hat  | National Forum for Biological Recording Council
(Old hats  | NBN Board, ALERC Board, CBDC, KMBRC)

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Re: Recorder conundrum

As an aside, even before the Atlas and licencing, there were many LERCs not sharing any/much data via the Gateway. There are those who challenge the notion that LERCs should be uploading to the NBN at all (i.e. that only national schemes should do so, to simplify data flow). However amongst other issues this raises, there are some taxa where this wouldn't work at all, as I noted in an article encouraging LERCs to share a few years back:
https://nbn.org.uk/news/the-value-of-lo … centre-da/

The example given is no longer valid as there is now a micro moth national scheme, but there are still other taxa where this is the case.

-----------------
Teresa Frost | Wetland Bird Survey National Organiser | BTO
Other hat  | National Forum for Biological Recording Council
(Old hats  | NBN Board, ALERC Board, CBDC, KMBRC)

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Re: Recorder conundrum

Thanks for the information Teresa. I have asked the organisation concerned whether this is a temporary dispute which can be resolved with NBN, or is simply irreconcilable, but unfortunately my emails are no longer being answered. I'm aware of the recent changes to LERC funding and, while this is greatly regrettable, I don't wish my data to be held to ransom. As you suggest, in this instance there appeared to be little transfer of data even when the funding was in place, which is immensely frustrating for voluntary recorders. So I will probably begin to replicate my sightings on iRecord, but since verification of some taxa is still subject to dispute (spiders!) this is only a partial solution.

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Re: Recorder conundrum

For info, IRecord does have an ability to accept records by file upload but the process is not as easy to use as we would like and is not generally available at the moment.

Jim Bacon.

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Re: Recorder conundrum

BRC might have a more useful view on the way that iRecord might help solve this issue. I don't think Martin Harvey is as regular a visitor to this forum as us but I've recently had some interesting pointers from him about data flows through iRecord to the Atlas. His soldierflies dataset is at https://registry.nbnatlas.org/public/show/dp37

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Re: Recorder conundrum

Hi, thanks for everyone's responses to this thread so far.

I would suggest that you do try to continue this discussion with your LERC where possible, as it will be very useful for them to know your current thinking. Even if your emails are going unanswered, it may be worth dropping an email to them, once you have decided how to progress with your records, so that someone at the LERC has the info direct from you.

As has been mentioned, there are some issues with data flows from iRecord in certain taxonomic groups, however, it is likely that this would be the best route for your records, unless you are part of a recording scheme who would be able to submit your records for you. What species do you tend to record? Someone from iRecord/BRC should be able to help you understand the data flows for the specific taxon groups in question.

If you want to discuss more specific details of this issue outside of the forum, please feel free to drop me an email at e.vogel@nbn.org.uk

Ella

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Re: Recorder conundrum

There is an IRecord forum discussing data flow at https://www.brc.ac.uk/irecord/forum/4

Jim Bacon.